So -- I was in trial all day, and when I finally come back and check this thread -- no responses, not one.

There were, however, 10 responses to the electric blanket thread.

Not that I expect every post to be read and commented on, and everyone is welcome to be interested in what they choose, but -- I'm disappointed.

aren't we interested in better piercers? better piercings? I'll be even more clear:

IT'S OUR FAULT! Or, at least 50% of the sorry state of piercers is due to US, the piercing consumers, who are not demanding excellence, who don't check out shops properly, who don't require expertise or sometimes even courtesy from the people sticking needles in them, and don't make their feelings known when things go wrong. It may not be totally our fault, but the industry responds to the demands and attitude of the people it serves.

Are you being served? I'm not, but maybe I'm the only one.

or maybe I'm just way the heck off base, but if so, I'd like to know it.

Hey...I responded...it was just on another board.

I'll say it again, though, re-worded slightly...I don't think the average customer is able or willing to pay what a truly professional piercer is worth. It's like teachers. If you want to attract the best, pay has to be comparable to that of other professionals.

Another obstacle: many of us live in smaller markets, and don't have the luxury of choice.

Now. Howzabout you help me find that microfleece comforter I'm looking for?

I didnt respond because I guess I have been lucky and always had an amazing piercer. The shop was clean, the piercers were awesome and all in all it was just a great experience.

I can tell you though if I had a bad experience I would tell the piercer and demand something to be done. I guess I am one of those that when I pay for something and I don't get what I paid for I do something about it.

I think a lot of people don't *know* what's good or not. I didn't know that I was being given crappy aftercare advice when I got pierced...I didn't find that out until years later.

I've been in trial, been sick, and haven't eaten all day, which may have exacerbated my disappointment.

I do believe it's an important issue, though, and until consumers take responsibility for this, things will not improve, and piercers will continue to leave beads in people's ears.

(thank you, Bash, I know. luv ya)

Thank you Cloud, I second your motion! Not had good experiences with piercers in my area. I agree they should be held to a much higher standard than they are. I am required to have a certain number of education and hands on hours to get my initial license, and maintain my license, in my profession, no reason why they cant. I would be willing to pay more for quality qualified work!

I agree about the small market thing... There is one piercing within 75 miles of my home. Thank god he's awesome! I used to travel to to Buffalo for a decent piercer. It amazes me though, that people will let someone permanently change thier body just because they work at a shop. It's like letting the counter girl give you a filling. She works there, it'll be fine!

I'm interested in what you think should be done to rectify a botched piercing job... Refund? Repierce? I don't know about you, but I would be hesitant to let someone who messed up once try again to "fix it"

Well, I agree with that, to a certain extent. It's not necessary to add bad to bad, but-- The problem is that piercers behave that way with impunity because they do not see any consequences. There are no standards or accountability.

The remedy is to apply marketplace pressure but not patronizing them, by telling others not to patronize them, and by complaining and letting them know. Complain to the owner of the shop, the senior piercer, the counter person (loudly in the presence of other customers). You don't have to be nasty about it, but you can demand an appropriate level of skill and service.

And yes, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of stupid piercees, who don't do their homework, are ignorant of proper piercing procedure, who do stupid things to their piercings. That doesn't change the fact that it's a service industry.

The problem is definitely the "average" customer. I think most people do not know or appreciate the difference between a great place and a not-so-great place. And the average customer will probably never do any research on the subject, or visit this web forum (or any forum). It's unfortunate, and I don't know the solution.

I thought that I had responded. I did rant on my blog as when I was a newbie to piercing I ran into a piercer that was a dud. I also copied your post and that of John Lopez to take for my piercer to read. She has all that is important about where she was schooled and the sanitation of the shop posted in plain sight. When she went to open the shop the local city council gave her grief and she won the battle, but they keep a close eye on the shop for trouble. In her other shop the only time the law was called was by her as an underage moron would not leave.

For everyone who has responded that they have a great piercer--fantastic! Hold on to him or her. Make sure their shop owner/manager knows how you feel. Praise where due is a good thing.

But . . . you're missing the point here. For every great piercer, there are a hundred mediocre ones. Educate the consumers, yes, that's very important. But don't take it lying down if you have a bad experience. Shout out! Those mediocre piercers don't care, because we don't care.

I'm starting a pierced consumers' blog, dammmit!

You go Cloud! As with any procedure you have done to your body (piercing, tattoos, surgery, etc.) you as a consumer must RESEARCH, get referrals, etc. You just don't go out and buy a house without an inspection or a car without test driving, not that I'm saying you should test drive the piercer, but you know what I mean.

When we have a problem with a business, we report them the the BBB, why can't we do the same with shops?

I'm one of the fortunate ones that has a great piercer.. (Thanks Courtney @ Cheaptrx), thats why I ALWAYS tip her well as well as send her referals.

I didn't respond Cloud, because I didn't really feel there was anything useful I could say.

In every non-regulated industry, there are good, bad and ugly. There are no current movements to get the law on body mods made stricter, such as inspections/licensing by a public health authority. My piercer has repeated asked his local MP to consider it, and has handed in quite a big petition.

The public are never going to be educated about it for the first time until it's more widely accepted, and dangerous mavericks are a serious cause of the social unease with piercings (note, I said a major cause, it's by no means the only one).

It was a rant, and one I mostly agree with, but I didn't feel there were any practical solutions provided, and, frankly, don't believe there are any. I didn't want to pop your righteous indignation bubble by saying so

Public education is really all there is. The APP isn't going to do it. Piercers aren't going to do it. The public must do it.

I tell all that I know who are looking for a piercer that the shop I go to is ace. I also tell them to avoid one and to be leery of another in my area. Also to not go to a shop that you do not know and just get a piercing without first checking their references. If they will not give any just leave.

well, maybe my bubble went pop, and maybe it didn't. But I don't agree that there's nothing we can do. I also do encourage implementation of a practical solution, or at least a practical step in the right direction, and that is, to make your dissatisfaction known to the business owner when there's a bad experience, and clearly indicate to the business owner that the word of mouth will be active and unfavorable. That is something that's within all of our power when there is a problem.

I can think of a couple of other things that I can do, that other people may not be willing to do, but that's a different story.

I agree with John, public education is the only step to making this industry better. The health departments are a most pathetic excuse for "health and saftey" standards. I have never had a good health inspector (ie. they could keep their dirty ungloved hands out of my sterilized jewelry and tool storage)

The fact remains that it is largely politics based, the health departments do absolutely nothing to keep hacks out of the industry, and do nothing to stop people from piercing and tattooing on the streets.

Tribalectic is a great way to show how we can influence the community to making good choices in their body modification pursuits. Education your customers one on one and on the internet is the most effective thing that I have found, but you are right, something more has to be done.

When I got my belly button pierced when I was 17 (my parents were with me) I went to the shop closest to where I lived, I heard it was a good shop from some of my friends. It seemed pretty clean, but the guy was such a jerk. I really should have left and found a new place but, I was naive, and assumed that's how piercers were. He was being rude and swearing and everything. Then I was reading experiences on here and how much better they sounder and realized what a crappy time I'd had, and just started telling anyone who wanted a piercing to NOT go to this guy. Anyway I found a new piercer and she is totally the opposite, her shop has a warm feeling, very clean and shes a sweetie! It was easy for me to ask her how long she ha been piercing and any other questions, where as the other guy..I didn't want to say a word.
But if i had known what to look for it would have been better. So yes people need to be educated!

Just to refresh our memory about our basic consumer rights, here is the APP's Piercee's Bill of Rights:

1. To be pierced in a hygienic environment by a clean, conscientious, sober piercer wearing a fresh pair of disposable medical examination gloves.

2. To be pierced with a brand new, completely sterilized single-use needle that is immediately disposed of in a medical Sharps container after use on one piercing.

3. To be touched only with freshly sterilized and appropriate implements, properly used and disposed of or re-sterilized (where appropriate) in an autoclave prior to use on anyone else.

4. To know that piercing guns are NEVER appropriate, and are often dangerous when used on anything -- including earlobes.

5. To the peace of mind that comes from knowing that their piercer knows and practices the very highest standards of sterilization and hygiene.

6. To a have a knowledgeable piercer evaluate and discuss appropriate piercings and jewelry for her/his individual anatomy and lifestyle.

7. To be fully informed of all risks and possible complications involved in his/her piercing choice before making any decisions.

8. To seek and receive a second opinion either from another piercer within the studio or from another studio.

9. To have initial piercings fitted with jewelry of appropriate size, material, design, and construction to best promote healing. Gold-plated, gold-filled or sterling silver jewelry is never appropriate for any new or unhealed piercing.

10. To see pictures, be given a tour of the piercing studio, and to have all questions fully and politely answered before making or following through on any decision.

11. To be fully informed about proper aftercare, both verbally and in writing, and to have continuing access to the piercer for assistance throughout the healing process.

12. To be treated with respect, sensitivity and knowledge regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, ethnicity, ability, health status or piercing choice.

13. To change her/his mind, halt the procedure and leave at any point if the situation seems uncomfortable or improper.

From www.safepiercing.org

That's a form of public education and it's too bad the bill of rights isn't in high schools and on collage campuses. Hell, if the APP used this as advertisement instead of pictures of pierced people it would actually accomplish something, maybe.

Unfortunately the piercing industry isn't willing or able to self regulate and State driven regulations tend to be reactionary and stupid.

If the public was more aware, good shops would succeed and bad shops would fail.

Yes. It's an excellent manifesto.

I've talked and thought about presenting consumer awareness classes about piercing locally, and about doing a piercing consumer blog. I'd like to do both, if I have the energy.

My plea to all of you is to take the small steps. Talk to your friends about your rights as a piercee, and how to find a good piercer. Even if they don't seem like their listening.

And don't take bad service lying down!

Cloud, I read this post the other day and reread it again. I applaud your dedication and commitment in raising awareness of standards. I must say, rereading the APP manifesto and taking that as a minimum standard I can safely say that I could not in all honesty apply it to every piercing I have ever had. Thankfully,as far as i am aware the hygene standards have always been adhered to. But certainly remembering back I recall piercers who haven't fulfilled their role in terms of advice, measuring for jewellery properly and have been aloof and snotty.

Luckily I have found an establishment I am happy with, and as I live in a city there are generally other options should my opinion change for whatever reason.

Other than standard lobes (which is a topic all in itself) body piercing is still pretty much a minority activity.

I have been getting pierced since 1996 with varying degrees of success.

When I first got a piercing, the internet was not the source of info that it is today. I knew that anything puncturing my skin must be sterile and that was about it. I did'nt know about rejection, migration, metal types jewellery gauges etc.

I agree that praise should be given where its due. This site and BME have educated thousands of people as communities based on the experiences of piercees and piercers.

My concerns are that objective regulation on piercing is a very difficult area. Piercing is constantly evolving. I absolutely agree that there should be standards on cleanliness and hygene. Qualifications however are a different issue. How on earth can the competency of every individual piercer be assessed and by whom? It would be great if there was an industry specific recognised qualification or license that required regular reassessment or certification to avoid complacency, but it seems impracticable.

Anyway, I agree that people should be vocal in praise and criticism of their piercers. I feel that as a community of pierced and modded people, the burden is on us to get the word out about the standards we expect.

If that takes the form of advising a 13 year old kid posting here that getting whatever piercing they fancy that day against their parents wishes, (done in their school toilet by their best friend with a dirty needle and an suitably sized post earring) is a terrible idea, or if a piercee walks out of a piercers studio and tells the piercer it was because their place falls below their expectations, then so be it.

Cloud, I kind of got the impression that you feel a bit unappreciated. Your contributions to this site help people. Whether they read often and seldom post (like me), are just visiting like the guests online or are daily contributers like you, regular discussion on piercing and the unique challenges we encounter by indulging in it, keep us together and keep us informed. Apparent apathy to your initial post may have been really just been acquiescence.

Standards will always be a huge issue as they are in every vocational field. But I feel that the various forus and online communities out there do great work and stop people having to learn the hard way.

Sheesh I have rumbled on a bit - apologies.