Yes. I love animals, especially in a sandwhich.

Nah mate, it's BBQ season!!

All replies to this thread, the others are getting deleted now

And the way I see it, the animals I would have eaten would still be killed, only it would be for nothing, they'd be waisted.

I cannot healthily be a vegetarian, I don't like enough veggies and am prone to anemia as it is. It just isn't a viable option for some people, because I refuse to take supplements when there's a perfectly good and more natural alternative.

I compromise by using more ethical meats, free range and all that stuff. I could never eat veal.

I could get into the debate I gave in my philosophy class, but it's been boiling hot here today and I cba lol.

Veggies have feelings too ya know!

Edits:

I was gonna post a big debate starter for this, then realised it was incredibly selfish of me to derail the thread

I'm a proud member of PETA (people eating tasty animals)

Okay, so you already started the debate, I'll post it here.

Please no one take offense, this is my beliefs also, and is stated in the formal way, as I was taught in my Philosophy and Ethics class.

I only really eat chicken, ham, beef and occasionally duck/lamb/pork anyways (or some form of product made from those meats). I cannot be a vegetarian and healthy see my previous post.

I just don't believe that animals have the same right to life as humans, not the animals commonly used to meat anyways.

I believe a person should be allowed their right to life, that is a self-concious, autonomous being.
A foetus is not self concious or autonomous.
Neither is a person in a Persistant Vegetative State.
Or a cow (least not in the same way as humans).

The cow is not mentally equipped to be aware that it is about to be slaughtered. It's relatively quick (I make sure the meat I buy is humanely treated and free range) and painless.
Sure it could be aware enough to realise it's in bad conditions (i.e. battery farming and horrific kinds of animal testing) but I do not have a problem with the ethics of free range farming and humane killing.

As for animal testing, I don't agree with it. The emotionally charged posters and ad's actually do have an effect on me. However, it's not the kind of effect that makes me want to donate my money to the charity in question.
There are very few effective alternatives to animal testing *Can't remember them off the top of my head so I'll research it in a min*, so unless you are willing to donate your time and body to testing, I do not sympathise with your campaining to outlaw it.

Agreed 110%. But I'd also like to add that meat is yummy!

Or just be vegetarian forever... Not just 30 days!

Well, my vegetarian post wasn't aimed at downing people who aren't. Everyone has their own beliefs and reasons why they eat the way they do. I don't look down on meat eaters at all. I'm just eating meatless because I know it is benefiting me personally.
If you are a meat eater - eating free range meats is definitely the way to go.

A wise man (Bash) once said something along the lines of "animals kill and eat other animals. once you make those animals eat tofu and salads, then we'll talk about being vegan"

Plain and simple - everyone makes their own choices as to how they want to live their life. If YOU choose to not eat meat, that's fine and dandy. However, don't push it on me. Just as some people choose vegetarianism because they dont like the taste or texture of meat - i choose to eat meat because i enjoy it. Tofu tastes disgusting to me, no matter how it is prepared, and I can't stand the texture (and texture is rarely a deciding factor in what i consume).

Fact: Any animal that is raised for consumption WILL be killed. There's nothing nice about death. Honestly, will pampering them and painting their toenails change the fact that the end result of their short life is going to result in DEATH? No. In fact, I'd prefer that the cow be shot and killed quickly, but that's "inhumane". Funny, considering that the root word of humane is human. Last time I checked, being human requires being of the homo erectus species, correct me if i'm wrong. If beating a cow with a baseball bat on a regular basis means that my filet mignon is going to be more tender, then whomp that moocow good.

No matter what stretch of the imagination you try to grab at, protein from tofu and vitamin supplements is not processed and utilized by the human digestive system in the same way that meat protein is. And hell, why deny nature? Humans are omnivores, not herbivores - we've eaten meat since the dawn of time.

And a few words on PETA: PETA is a group of self-righteous, over-zealous extremists. My opinion will NEVER be shaped by an extremist group. You know who else falls in the category of self-righteous, over-zealous extremists? The Taliban (no, I'm not saying that all members of PETA are Taliban.)

I love animals, and I've saved plenty in my day. However, the ones I worry about are not the ones who were RAISED for the SPECIFIC purpose of being butchered. It is a battle you CANNOT and WILL NOT win.

A second post to follow in reply to the "facts".

I have been thinking about going vegetarian for a while now and I think im gonna try it. Mostly for health reasons. I LOVE animals and that is one reason, but I still think it doesnt matter if I eat meat, the same amount of animals will be killed, weather I buy the meat in the store or someone else does. I have been trying to lose weight, maybe this will help. I'm just gonna start by stop eating meat. But things like beef/chicken flavouring and pasta sauces with meat in it I will still eat and see how that goes. The if all is well, try to cut it out all together.
I could never be vegan though. I LOOOVE milk way too damn much haha. And there is no substitute for cow's milk I would drink. Eww.
Oh, and Barbie Botox, you weigh 85 pounds? How is that healthy? Im not trying to be rude or anything but my friend is about 90 pounds, about 5'3 and people think she is anorexic.

If I became a vegetarian again I'd become anorexic.
I think I'll stick to eating meat, even if being a vegetarian is healthier. I can't stand veggies and am a very fussy eater.

Unfortunately, these studies are BS. I'd like to see reference to the actual research performed. I can spew out a bunch of bogus numbers and say that the nation of Khazakastan backs it up, but it doesn't mean diddly squat. Without proper reference, it's worthless. A few issues: Why follow 6,000 vegetarians and 5,000 meat eaters? Too hard to find 6,000 meat eaters? A 12 year study is hardly capable of encompassing every variable involved in the subject. What happened to the other say... 48 years of the person's lives? What did they do in that part that may have contributed to some sort of disease or cancer? What about family history? Environment? The contributing factors are endless. To focus it simply on eating meat or not is biased and honestly, stupid.

I drink a more than adequate amount of water every day, and eat a balanced, healthy diet that includes meat. Believe me, I don't have ANY problem when it comes to taking a dump. I could eat thumbtacks and they would go right through me like a laser beam. Eating meat doesn't mean you aren't going to consume enough fiber. Eating a STUPID diet, no matter what path of life you choose and not consuming the proper amount of everything you need WILL cause problems. This point assumes that the average meat eater consumes little or no vegetables, which is flat out incorrect.

Once again, this claim assumes that every person who eats meat and dairy doesn't consume any vegetables. This is an issue of an improper diet in general, which doesn't depend on being a vegetarian or not. Even if you don't eat meat - you can still eat a crappy diet, and still be affected by heart disease.

Once again, I'd like to see the evidence of this. Because a few of these claims are ridiculous. SOME forms of seafood DO contain mercury and other heavy metals. This does not mean that ALL do. Additionally, it's completely ridiculous to pretend that all sources of meat and dairy are laced with steroids and hormones. A proper diet involves using discretion and common sense when choosing what you eat. Either way, there's plenty of toxic chemicals floating around in the air, shall we start wearing gas masks too?

Once again, more crap that can be evaded by simply making practical choices in your diet, it doesn't rely upon eating ONLY vegetables. Also, Scientology has a great method of removing all the toxins in your body which will make you healthy. Did you know that mental illness doesn't exist... that it's simply the toxins in your body eating your soul? Yeah... if you're into propaganda - you should check out Scientology too, cause L Ron Hubbard is the smartest man on earth. And just like PETA, tons of celebrities are scientologists.. they MUST be right!

Vegetarian diets can also cause really bad nutrient deficiencies if the diets are not followed properly. From my own personal experience - I see a higher number of sickly, unhealthy looking vegetarians than healthy ones. That's only personal experience though - I'm sure they vary. I think it's yet another BS propaganda remark to say that "most are this or that" with no evidentiary backing.

Or hell, even shopping for your food smart will cut your food bill by a much more substantial amount than that. And once again, there's no evidence to support this claim.

I didnt know that "a farms" was a real word. If someone plans on writing a dictation why meat is bad, they should at least do it with proper grammar. anyhow, back to the real subject. The "2 billion tons of manure claim" is once again, more BS than the manure in question. There's 2 billion tons of ammonia waste produced every year, and this is combined of all sources of the pollutant, not just waste from manure. Additionally, manure isn't rated by the EPA as one of the top pollutants, but ok. Greenhouse Effect? I'd be much more concerned by the uncountable numbers of pollutants released by all sorts of other sources before I freak out about animal crap - you know, the same animal crap that's been on our planet before humans even existed. Lets dump the use of the diminishing supplies of fossil fuels before we starting tripping on poop. Hell, the diesel trucks that transport the vegetables to the store put out much much more pollution than the cows crapping in the field.

I'm not even going to take the time to comprehend this staggeringly incorrect equation of made up numbers that lack a) evidentiary support and b) useful variables to the equation. However, I'd like the person who wrote this equation to pass me whatever they're smoking (hippy lettuce, i assume), because i bet it's some good stuff.

Socrates ate plant life and died. Oops. Who give's a damn what Einstein thinks about eating vegetables?

Also, it's a great feeling to finish a healthy meal with a nice drippy, medium rare steak to chew on.

Honestly, I can hardly believe the amount of propaganda that's being spewed on this subject.

At her height, the BMI is 77 - 94 lbs. She's right in the healthy weight range. If your friend is 90lbs at 5'3, she's about 14lbs underweight.

I didnt see where she posted her height anywhere lol sorry. But yea I know she is underweight, but she is defenitely not anorexic. She just doesnt eat a lot, she eats lots of small meals.

Oh lol, it was on her profile - i remember seeing it before

The BMI is primarily BS as well, for different reasons... but it IS a good guideline. If you aren't unhealthy - being underweight doesn't necessarily mean anything bad.

How do you find out BMI? How much should a person 5'5 weigh?

http://www.jarrow.com/tool.bodymassindex.php

Voila... BMI calculator
BMI Calculator

I tried being a vegiterian for 30 days when I still lived in Cali. (I am sure some of you remember that) And honeslty I hated it. I did not feel healthier, and I spent a crap load of money on fresh veggies and soy etc. We followed a diet given to us by a veggie person so we pretty much knew what we were doing.

Not all veggie people are more in shape as that study shows. I know a few people who are over weight and they do not touch meat. They weigh more then me and look super unhealthy. And yes I have also seen some super helathy veggies people, but I also see super healthy meat eater every single day as well.

Any who this is a touchy debate. I for one will always eat meat. Like I said I tried it for 30 days with no meat and I had to go back to it. I have seen the videos etc how they kill the animals and I still eat the meat. Sorry its just human nature to eat meat.

How about we tell people who o nly eat a veggie diet to try eating meat for 30 days....the debate wil be just as strong as this one if not stronger.

Top 10 Reasons to Become A Vegetarian

Most Important Reasons to Become A Vegetarian

1. Live Longer
Whatever happend to live fast, die young, leave a gorgeous corpse?!?

2. You’ll make regular visits to the restroom

I love going poopie and all that...but i really dont want to visit the restroom more than i have to thanks

3. Healthy heart

Red meat + excersise = healthy heart AND tasty food.

4. Avoid toxic chemicals

...Does this mean im not allowed my koolibu??!

5. You will give your body a detox

see above

6. Great Looking Body And Skinnier

Ive eaten meat all my life and my body rocks thank you. thats more down to excersise than eating leafs. And being a veggie does not automatically make you skinnier or healthier.

7. Save Lot’s of Money

You obviously dont live in scotland. have you SEEN the price of those packaged salad things???

8. Be environmental friendly

That means being nice right? you may have picked up that i dont do that.

9. Vegetarians are More Efficient

Actually, FARMERS are more efficient. Vegitarians just eat the produce. i know a few vegitarians who couldnt organise a pile of organisers even if they came numbered and colour coded.

10. Its The Humane Thing To Do

And if you want to go tell that to the lions too, more power to ya. We are at the top of the food chain, its not something to feel guilty about. Bet the T-rex didnt have debates about eating everything that moved (we will look past the tiny arms/brains for the sake of this argument)

Basically, im not turning veggie. *insert really nasty, tastless and mean joke here* (see number 8 )

oh and on the same note... i wouldnt know i saved a life. i dont get steak every time i go shopping. i do however notice that, regardless of me eating it, the shops...still...stock it... NOOOO!!! mary's little lamb is dead and i didnt even do it the courtesy of a decent burial by crapper. tut tut.

Oh and off topic I hate the BMI!! It says I should weigh 113-138 pounds and says I am obese. I AM NOT OBESE! jzdfhfhyfgsb If I wieghed 113 pounds I would look horrible.

I know for a fact that this one is complete BS because I work in a grocery store. More specifically, the PRODUCE department. Over the last year, produce prices have sky-rocketed. At my store, apples have gone from being $1.19 to $1.99lb. Bananas from $0.39 to $0.64lb. Tomatoes averaged from $1.99 to $2.99lb. Now they are $2.99 to $3.99lb! Packaged salads have increased $0.50 a bag. Carrots are the most ridiculous in my opinion. A 1lb bag of whole carrots use to be $0.79 and a 2lb bag of baby carrots was $2.29. That same 1lb bag of whole carrots is now $1.49 and the 2lb bag of baby carrots is now $4.29! How can you save money when you have to spend more of it to get what you need?

^^ I know!!! Ive been ranting about it. I have been trying to eat healthier but am spending twice my usually grocery budget to buy veggies and fruit. The govt wants us to be healthier and not overweight but how the eff are we supposed to do that?! Especially people on limited income and welfare. How can a mother feed her kids well on a single income? Its almost impossible.

As others have stated buying veggies is NOT cheaper. We do not eat redmeat all the time nor meat with every meal. But I can tell you Rob and I can budget our money very well and we buy meat and veggies each week. If we do not have to buy dog food we each spend maybe 25 bucks a week. Not bad I think.

blah...I'm a bit irritated that this broad came on here and posted all this, right AFTER I made my vegetarian post. Now it's turned into a full on debate. I was just wanting to know who else was around here and how their transition was.

The way I see it, if you want people to accept your way of life, you don't push your beliefs on others. But then again, this girl just copied and pasted articles from the PETA website.

Boo, if you vegetarians/vegans REALLY want to eat naturally, adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. That's the ultimate in human nutrition, and by far the most "natural" (hey, we survived on it for hundreds of thousands of years [unless you're Christian, of course ;)]).

As for PETA... well, lets just say they are the Hezbollah of the animal "rights" community. I cannot think of a more blatantly evil, immoral, offensive, and hypocritical group of people. Among other things, they actively support and fund domestic eco-terrorism. Don't believe me? Just do a video google search for "Penn and Teller PETA". If you watch that and can still walk away from it thinking that PETA is a good organization, then you are blind follower and only choose to believe what you want to believe.

Honestly, the very best thing you as an individual can do for animals, and quite frankly the whole of nature, is to... *thinks of a delicate way of putting this* break free of your mortal coils.